I got to sit down with Samuel Van Wyk to discuss acting, improv, career, past & future and so much more….

OR listen on Spotify while you drive!

My mission in 2026 is to knock stage fright of the top of the phobias list. We do this spreading joy & laughter one show / workshop at a time while teaching invaluable life skills. We have public shows weekly in Times Square NYC and tour schools, theaters, community centers and corporate / private events DC to Boston almost daily.
https://newyorkimprovtheater.com/
https://improv4kids.com/

Sam is my right hand man at the New York Improv Theater. He is the perfect first interview in my new series. The detail oriented to balance my constantly unfocused divergent thoughts. I could not survive without his support and efforts. Every day Sam texts me to make sure I have contacted clients and cast for the coming week. Almost daily, Sam runs shows & workshops for me when double booked or when I need to stay in the office to keep up with clients etc.

Sam is an MC, Teacher, Corporate Teambuilding Member of the New York Improv Theater since 2017
https://www.samuelvanwyk.com/
https://www.instagram.com/iamsamvw/
As an improviser, Samuel has performed for thousands of students and adults. He has also lead Improvisational workshops for all ages from kindergarten students to senior executives and everything in between. Samuel has lead workshops on the benefit of improv in a business setting for professionals in the education and medical field as well as corporate clients like IBM, Bing, and JP Morgan. As an actor, Samuel works in TV, Film, and Theatre. Samuel has appeared in such TV shows as Evil Talks, Diabolical, and Mysteries at the Museum. Favorite stage roles include Malcolm (The Full Monty), Hal (Proof), and Snoopy (You’re a Good Man, Charlie Brown!).

Walt Frasier
https://waltfrasier.net/
Entertainer – Producer – Educator – Author
For 30+ years Walt Frasier has been entertaining audiences live from Times Square NYC, Touring Nationwide, and occasionally popping onto their TVs and other devices. For casting Walter in SAG AFTRA Film, TV & Commercial projects, contact (Jaime) Baker Management. International credits include TV, Commercials, Theater, Music & Comedy. Currently the Artistic Director of the NEW YORK IMPROV THEATER and North East Managing Director for THEY IMPROV.

Having Fun with Walt Frasier: Transcript

Walt Frasier: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Having Fun with Walt Frasier. I’m Walt Frasier. I’ve got a special guest today, Samuel Van Wyk. Sam, say hello to the world!

Samuel Van Wyk: Hello, world!

Walt Frasier: Yeah, man. So I’ve known Sam, what about 2018?

Samuel Van Wyk: 17.

Walt Frasier: 17! So we’re looking at 9 years now. It was around this time, probably, that you auditioned, right? Late spring?

Samuel Van Wyk: Yeah, I think it was June.

Walt Frasier: June, alright, cool, cool, cool. I think I remember the first… you were one of those that came in that, pretty much on the first day, was ready to go. And I can’t say that about everybody that auditions for us, they gotta learn certain things, we bring a lot of people from different worlds. But you were probably on a gig within the first week.

Samuel Van Wyk: Yes. Yes.

Walt Frasier: And remember, was it you, Evan, Laris, and I on the road?

Samuel Van Wyk: Uh, my very first gig was with Amelia and Brian at the King’s Bay Y.

Walt Frasier: Oh, okay. Where?

Samuel Van Wyk: Kings Bay Y.

Walt Frasier: Oh, so you started with one of the more fun gigs. Was that the famous basketball gig?

Samuel Van Wyk: Yes, yes, one of the more challenging. No, that’s one where the, uh, they tried to dismiss the kindergartners halfway through the show, thinking the other kids wouldn’t get distracted.

Walt Frasier: Oh, that’s always fun. We do a lot of fun gigs, we do improv comedy for a living, and we do pretty much the full gambit, the full spectrum of types of gigs, from educational outreach to corporate to college to public shows in Times Square, and a lot of the shows we do are not ideal, as you would say.

Samuel Van Wyk: Yes, correct.

Walt Frasier: Yeah, the one I was referring to… you were on the basketball show, though, right?

Samuel Van Wyk: I was, I was.

Walt Frasier: Yeah. Playing basketball on the other side of the gym wall, kind of a thing.

Samuel Van Wyk: Yes. Well, first they were playing basketball with the kids sitting underneath the basketball hoop, the counselors, and so some kids were getting hit on the head when they made a basket and I was like, can we, can we stop that? And then, so they would…

Walt Frasier: And that was in the same side. It wasn’t like a room divider. We’ve done a lot of shows where we’re playing basketball. It was like…

Samuel Van Wyk: Nope, same side.

Walt Frasier: Where you’re performing.

Samuel Van Wyk: Yeah, yeah.

Walt Frasier: Yeah, and there’s always one of those things, the wash, rinse, repeat kind of a thing. I feel like I’ve slowly built those more into contracts and invoices, how to present an improv show at your facility. I haven’t put in yet: Don’t play basketball while we’re doing a show, like, right in front of us. I probably should. I, uh…

Samuel Van Wyk: I mean, you shouldn’t have to.

Walt Frasier: Exactly. And I, like, you shouldn’t have to explain how to use shampoo either, but there’s a… That, that classic wash, rinse, repeat thing but we’ve had a lot of gigs and, uh, probably a couple thousand shows of workshops now.

Samuel Van Wyk: Yep.

Walt Frasier: Yeah, so what was your favorite memory doing improv comedy, either in Times Square or on the road with us?

Samuel Van Wyk: Uh, well, I mean, it’s hard to beat. Walt and I just got to go to Puerto Rico while I was there.

Walt Frasier: Yeah, it is tough. Yeah, that’s hard to top.

Samuel Van Wyk: Yes, for a corporate gig, uh, which was very fun. Uh…

Walt Frasier: We need more jobs like that, for sure.

Samuel Van Wyk: Yeah, any reason to put me in a warm climate, I’m here for.

Walt Frasier: Yeah. Yeah. I had that year in 2013 where I went to Norway for 4 days and Puerto Rico for 4 days for TV show tapings. And it was because it was a year with so much ice that we did Royal Pains in Puerto Rico. And I’ve been looking for more gigs down there ever since, we finally got one. But, uh, but you were already on vacation there.

Samuel Van Wyk: I was, I was.

Walt Frasier: So sometimes it works out.

Samuel Van Wyk: I mean… yeah, but if I was not on vacation and had a reason to go back, that would have been great, too.

Walt Frasier: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We need more jobs, so if you’re in Puerto Rico watching this, we are available to fly down and do improv comedy, preferably between the months of December and March, I would say. Yeah, just July, you know, I go, but uh… but yeah, I filmed there in March, we did the show in January, ton of fun, corporate event. Very expensive hotel they put us up at, and uh… you didn’t stay at the hotel.

Samuel Van Wyk: That was not offered to me!

Walt Frasier: No, you already had a place, right?

Samuel Van Wyk: Yeah.

Walt Frasier: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I don’t think we made it all, and I would have rather taken the money, because it was about $800-$900 a night for that hotel, I would have rather taken the money, give me that extra cash, I’ll go to the Airbnb and put that into vacation, maybe even stay two or three extra days.

Samuel Van Wyk: I would have done that, too.

Walt Frasier: Yeah. So, one of the reasons I’m doing this podcast is, uh, we’ve worked a lot of shows. Sam here, if you don’t know Sam, uh, pretty much one of our top corporate team-building teachers, uh, top teachers in general, one… If I’m not there, 9 times out of 10, it’s Sam leading the show. 1 or 2 times out of 10 times when I’m there, he’s leading it too, because I’m just, like, I’m just gonna sit at the piano and chill today.

But, uh… I want to talk a lot about stage fright, social anxiety, how we use improv comedy in the corporate world, in schools. And I always say, we’re not there to teach improv comedy. If they become improv comedians, if they get the theater bug, God bless, but what really gets us going, me… keeps me going, even through those tough times when they’re playing basketball or not really paying attention. We’re there to teach listening, focus, creativity, critical thinking, and most importantly, probably the self-confidence, because I really believe once you get past that, everything else becomes easier.

But what was your first experience being on stage? First, I want to talk about, like, what we did for self-confidence, and then how we teach it. Because, like, what was that first time you were ever on stage, or what was it like overcoming those things for you?

Samuel Van Wyk: So, I know I was in a church, like, pageant at 3, because at the age of 3, because that’s what we did. Uh, but my first, uh, real, like, “oh, I am acting” was, uh, in kindergarten, my teacher, Mrs. Tenable, Nancy, we’ll never forget, uh, she used to just use theater to help tell the story, so it was like, we were acting these things out. I was like, oh, this is so fun, it’s easier than reading, we just get to do things, um. And so she really started that path of, like, using theater, using music to, like, tell the stories to help us learn.

And then, uh, my very first role in second grade, there’s a… for those who grew up in religious backgrounds, there is a group of movies and plays called Salty, the Singing Hymnal. It’s literally a Psalter hymnal, a book, uh, come to life, who teaches kids history lessons, and it was “Salty Went Back in Time,” and I had a role in second grade with a script and lines and everything, and I thought it was such a big deal.

Walt Frasier: Salty went to space?

Samuel Van Wyk: Uh, no, “Salty Went Back in Time,” sorry. Salty went back in time. He did go to space at some point, I’m sure.

Walt Frasier: Oh, time! Oh, okay. Wow. Like, the salty space-time continuum sci-fi plotline is what we’re missing right now.

Samuel Van Wyk: And then finally, in 8th grade, I got to play Salty. The dreams come true.

Walt Frasier: And was Salty a person, like a human character?

Samuel Van Wyk: He was literally a book.

Walt Frasier: Oh, Salty was the book, oh, okay.

Samuel Van Wyk: A songbook, but, like, played by a person.

Walt Frasier: That’s amazing. I miss that, growing up Catholic, but… Uh, so, and then… going into theater, like, into college, did you ever deal with stage fright, or any kind of nerves getting on stage?

Samuel Van Wyk: So, I think, like, because I’ve been playing in the realm of theater, like, since a kid, I don’t get a ton of stage fright. Uh, I think when I’ve felt the most nervous might be, like, I don’t know, like singing in church, or, like, giving a speech. Uh, stuff that… where I was like, oh, I’m not as prepared as I want to be to feel comfortable. Uh, which is so funny, knowing that, like, a lot of my professional acting career lately has been in improv, where it’s like, well, I’m fine with the make-em-ups because I know what I’m doing in this world.

Walt Frasier: Right. You know, it’s funny, I feel the same way. I, you know, doing theater, I grew up more musician, switched to theater later. But doing theater, there’s always a process, there’s plenty of rehearsals. By the time you get to opening night, if you’re working with a good director, you know, even a mediocre director, you have the time to figure stuff out.

I always struggled doing… cabaret too, when I definitely did not do the work I should be doing. And 90% of it, that’s what it is. But when you’re standing out there… and I get this at karaoke sometimes, even, believe it or not. I feel like I’m singing this song. By about the third verse, I’m just like, I got really into it, I got really into it, singing a couple high notes, like, woo, all the ego and all that kind of stuff, and then I’m like, I’m bored. It’s like line dancing, right? Like, three quarters of the way through, we’ve done the same 16 bars of steps. Okay, I’m ready for something else.

And I think that’s why I love the improv now, but, um, with the theater, there’s always more of a progression of the character, and I think, for me, doing church singing and cabaret singing and that type of thing, I’m not doing the work as an actor. I’m sure if I did the work as an actor, that wouldn’t be a problem.

Samuel Van Wyk: See, I… yeah. I think for me, it’s like… when I’m singing a song, there are people who are incredible vocalists, who aren’t very good storytellers. Uh, and I think, like… I would rather focus on the storytelling in a song than focus on my voice, because that puts me really in my head about, like, well, I could have sounded better, and it’s like, put the technique away, that’s for the practice room, like, this is about sharing the story.

Walt Frasier: 100%. I used to sing Carmen. Uh, there’s a particular song in there, “Don Jose, Don Jose,” that’s why I don’t sing opera, my French is terrible. But the Flower Song from Carmen, I could never sing if I’m thinking in my head as a singer, “how do I sing this song?” Even, like, mix notes like F and G. Uh, I could pop a high C, a high B flat, all these things, all day long. It’s the mix. If I’m thinking, it’s always tight.

When I started thinking as the character, it’s like I found the character always knew how to hit the notes. The character knew how to emote. That moment that was written exactly the way it was supposed to be written… it’s not for me as the performer to, you know, second guess the writers and the composers. When I let the character do the work, it was flawless every single time when I was warmed up. And as soon as I was like, “oh, I gotta hit an F now,” and like… it should be an easy note for me, for somebody who could pop a C, but I’m thinking in the mix, the passaggio, and then I create a break because I’m thinking and pushing and all that kind of stuff.

Um, and then switching all this gears into what we teach in improv comedy. I think… I have this thing with improv, my number one rule has become “have fun.” But never at anybody else’s expense, because I truly believe, kind of on the same things we were just talking about, when I’m having fun, I’m letting the character do the work. When I’m having fun, I’m not thinking. When I’m having fun, I’m not worried about the technique. I have 30-some years of training and experience and all that stuff. When I’m not thinking in automatic mode to some degree, everything kind of works out.

As soon as I start to think, I start to worry about all the wrong things. And when I teach the improv, I see once, like, the kids especially, but when the adults start thinking like kids, when they just start having fun, there’s this magic leap that happens. I don’t know how you describe that, or your experience with that, but my feeling is, like, if I can just get them past worrying about what it’s supposed to be, then we can start really getting down to brass tacks, but that gets past all that gunk of the ego and insecurity really quick.

Samuel Van Wyk: Yeah, I think there’s two things to that, right? The first is just… to have fun is just the buy-in of either, like, “I’m too scared, I don’t want to look stupid,” or like, “ugh, I’m too old for this.” For the adults, it’s so easy to be like, “I’m not gonna be good at this, I’m gonna look stupid,” or whatever.

And the truth is, like, we go in there, and there are… I truly believe, like, there are valuable lessons to be learned from the exercises we do, but the first point is to just have fun, to let go, to not worry about being self-conscious, to know we’re all doing the same thing. So if you feel stupid or think you look stupid, great, you’re in a room of everyone doing the exact same thing as you. So we’ve all just decided we’re not going to care about looking stupid.

It’s that same thing of, like, if you think you look insecure or dumb on the dance floor, you do. But if you’re having fun, you’re gonna be a great dancer, even if you look silly. Like, the point is that buy-in, and then “not at anyone’s expense.” There’s always gonna be that one person, whether it’s a kid or an adult, who’s like, “I’m the funny one,” or “I’m gonna throw a wrench in this and make this about me.” And you sure can, you sure can, but it is always going to be at the expense of you not actually learning and you stopping other people from learning. Like, the point… I always say this, the way to be the very best improviser is to make your scene partner look the best. If you’re like, “I’m gonna be the best,” then you’re gonna steamroll things, you’re not gonna listen, you’re gonna really push your ideas, you’re not gonna yes-and, and you’re gonna look like a jerk.

Walt Frasier: Oh, 100%. Yeah. I’ve been teaching kids, uh, especially the teens and high school kids, they get a lot… you know, that one group we work with, we get a lot of high school groups that are actually very good actors. As teenagers go. You know, they’re decent theater groups traveling to New York for workshops, and we’re just there for one of them to do improv, and I think they suffer from the problem of being good actors sometimes, or that they think they’re good. So the ego’s in the way, you get these kids are coming in, and they’re like, trying to impress us with, “look how good we are,” and still not listening, still trying to, like, “look at me, I’m Broadway,” and, you know, “look at me, look at me, look at me.”

And I started using this thing, or saying this thing where I say, “listen, don’t think, don’t try to impress me, always don’t try to be funny, don’t try to be clever.” My newest thing, though, is like, “don’t try to impress me.” One, don’t look at me, like, “ah, am I doing right, am I doing right?” Like, stay here with your scene partner. But even anything that’s trying to impress, trying to be clever, trying to do this, is the ego creeping in. And instead of thinking, don’t think about the words, just listen and trust what comes out. And then I am thinking… I am thinking, you know, what I’m doing, brother, there are choices being made. But I’m not stopping to think. I’m listening and trusting what comes to mind a little bit.

Samuel Van Wyk: Well, it’s so funny, I taught at one of those groups that came in, bunch of musical kids, and their teacher kind of just read them in front of her, was like, “these kids need this, I’m so glad you’re here.” They were great, but I think what they were trying to say is, like, they’re so worried about being perfect, they’re so ready, it’s like, “this is planned, and this is exactly how I’m gonna say it.” And it’s like, well, that’s not acting—I mean, that is, I suppose, in a way, acting, but it is not performing with your cast, if you’re like, “I’m gonna do this.” Like, well, then what happens if your other actor drops a line? Or does it a completely different way? It’s like, “I have this planned.” And I’ve worked with actors like that who are machines. No matter what you give them, they’re gonna give you this performance every single time.

Walt Frasier: Right. Yeah, I think that element, that machine, what’s good about the machine on some levels is that they’re dependable. You know what you’re going to get out of them. But you’re never gonna get great out of them. Like, it’s a great position player kind of a thing. Like, it’s… it’s got a service thing, but again, as a scene partner, it’s gonna be, okay, let’s go through the, like, paint-by-numbers kind of a thing. But at the same time, and this is a… if you are that kind of actor listening to this, I think that person has a ceiling. You know, that person can only go so far. Go ahead, please.

Samuel Van Wyk: There are, like, Chita Rivera was famously that kind of actor. She brought the same… and people have said this in interviews. Chita Rivera’s great, and still found a way to make it seem fresh, even if it was the exact same way. It’s just not… if I had the option of that kind of scene partner or someone who’s gonna work with me, I’d rather have the one who’s gonna work with me.

Walt Frasier: Yeah, 100%. So, and then the opposite side of things… well, two other things. We get those kids that are great theater people coming in. And that’s, I don’t know about you, probably 1 out of 10 of all the groups we work with. So then we have the corporate groups. And… and there’s a wide spectrum of diverse levels of empathy and, you know, more old school office politics, more new school embracing psychological safety type things. And uh… I feel like it’s gotten better in the last 5 years, but I fear a regression because of the way the world seems to be regressing politically, yadda. Don’t want to go there, but I wonder if you’ve seen any kind of changes over the last 10 years.

Samuel Van Wyk: Uh, definitely over the last 10 years. It’s really interesting, uh, and I don’t think they know this, but when a corporate group comes in for a workshop, they tell us so much about their office and their office environment. I was teaching a workshop with our coworker, Amelia, for another company. And we were… we were doing some of the exercises, and it’s like, oh… Interesting. They were so… if the boss did it, they’re gonna do it, trying to improve the boss. They would also make rules for themselves that I didn’t give them, that made every exercise harder, and it was just so interesting to be like, “Do you realize you’re adding steps that are making the creative process harder?” and they’re like, “oh.”

No, but then it’s just one of those things where we get so fixed and I think as people are starting to be more willing to see what improv can do for their team. They’re either like, “we’re bringing them in because we need this,” and it’s like, that’s not necessarily what you’re going to get. If they’re like, “they’re salespeople, we need them to be able to talk to people,” great, that’s definitely going to be something that will be touched on, but it’s not like, “I need people to be able to cold call strangers; an improv class is gonna solve everything.” It’s going to be a mind shift, and it’s going to give them tools they can use, but I find that people have been more lately come in to either just have fun—which is great, have some fun, you’re going to learn something along the way, don’t worry about it—or, “I want to do this so that this solves this very specific problem,” which… is kind of an impossible ask.

Walt Frasier: Well, I think there’s 2 things there. There’s the one where the person who’s in the room is not thinking, um, they’re too much in it to see the full picture. And I think that’s what we see. When they come in, we don’t know them, you know, so we have open eyes, open minds, so we see them for who they are, not for who they think they are. So when they start doing a couple games, what I love about what we do, and I always say, I promote what we do, is like, we can do this, this, we teach this, we teach this, and I think what we really do in a two-hour workshop is when we get people having fun, we remove those layers of ego and insecurity.

Which reveals what’s really going on more than not. All of a sudden, you see who has layers of insecurity that they’re hiding behind, and all of a sudden you can see their eyes, it’s like, “is it okay if…” things that they would never do, like if we’re peeling back those layers. But then also, I find that it’s… again, you can’t fix anything in 2 hours. It’s a launching point. And what I try to tell people is, like, okay, you can play these games for 2 minutes every day in the office, and bring back just… if you’re working on team, if you’re working on leadership, working on sales, but it’s more about, you have to follow through. It’s like, I know how to lose weight, but I keep gaining it back, because I stop doing what works.

If you go to the Weight Watchers meeting for that hour, I gotta bring that home more often to keep losing the weight. I’m on the losing path now, finally, again. I’ve lost as much as 100 pounds, 50 pounds, 7 different times now, but you keep falling off the wagon, because you don’t do what works. So it’s… we can teach a whole bunch of stuff in 2 hours, but then you gotta go back and live it. You gotta go back and do Yes-And, you gotta go back and listen with your eyes and focus, and all this stuff, and… and that’s the hard part, you know, as any teacher, all we can do is inspire. If they’re not willing to learn or listen, there’s only so much we can do.

Samuel Van Wyk: One thing I love to see is, like, after a workshop, especially when people are, like… sometimes people come in, and you can tell, they are terrified. And it’s like, I’m not a drill sergeant. I’m pretty exact about the way I do things, everything I do has a purpose, but like, we’re just gonna have fun and when people afterwards, like, “I was so scared, you made that so easy,” that’s my favorite thing to hear. But also the amount of times people are walking out afterwards and being like, “I had no idea you had that in you, I had no idea.”

And I think we just, whether we plan to or not, we kind of put people in boxes of what they’re capable of and how they can help us. And I feel like, in this, especially sometimes, I’ll get groups in and be like, “Oh, they are succeeders.” Here’s the challenge, I’m gonna flip the rules on them, they’re gonna nail it, they’re going to be very, like, “we are gonna get this right,” and that’s great. But, like, if we are only concerned about succeeding and not making a mistake, then we’re never gonna take a risk. We’re always gonna be on this path that we’ve always been, which is… steady, but you can’t grow and the fear of being wrong is gonna limit you.

Walt Frasier: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I always say, when you’re worried about being right, you end up, like, succeeding, but oftentimes with mediocrity. Like, it works. I did advanced AP computer science back in the day. I wasn’t great. The reason I’m not a computer science guy now, but there was always a saying: effectiveness versus efficiency. Like, it’s effective. But is that the most efficient thing? And in computer science, it’s all about, can you do it quicker, can you do it by saving space on the drive, you know, so the efficiency of it. So it’s effective. For us, it’s the other way around. Okay, you got it done, but is that the best possible outcome? You know, but it’s “good enough.” We could go on to the next thing.

But again, and I feel like in this world that we’re heading, I don’t think good enough… whereas actors, going backwards a little bit… there’s so many actors, there’s so many jobs, and there’s all this talk about who gets the job, or who doesn’t get the job, as if it was ever easier to get the job. You know, there’s more jobs than ever, but there’s also more of us than ever. And people not wanting to do the marketing, all this stuff, but there’s always more things you could be doing to create work for yourself. Go ahead, please.

Samuel Van Wyk: No, just to add on to that, the other thing is, like, if we’re just worried about efficiency, like it or hate it, AI is taking jobs. And if the goal is to just get work done, then you, as an employee, have to add something more than just getting the job done.

Walt Frasier: Exactly. And that’s the short version of the long way I was babbling around. Exactly, I was getting to the point, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can’t… good enough isn’t going to be good enough. And it, you know, good enough in the era of middle management of the 80s, 90s, which has kind of been going away for a while, you know, we haven’t had the middle management era in a while. It’s project management. This project goes away, and you may or may not be with the company when that project is done. It’s not you’re an employee of the company; you’re an employee of the company doing this project. And that’s about to do a major shift.

And I always say, we teach the human skills, and if you don’t know AI, you don’t know the human skills, I’m really worried about you in another 5 years or so. If you’re not acing one of those two, or whatever your talent is, you know, good enough isn’t good enough. I really fear, you know, and I think one of the things I try to fight with what we do is the whole apathy thing, and I think it’s the numbing out. You know, the political scene has numbed people out, the fear of the future has numbed people out, it’s just easier to be numb. But I really fear for people that are realizing—and I think some of them are starting to wake up and realize—”Oh, what worked for me? Has it worked? Is it working now?” And if you’ve been in that, I’m gonna just kind of scoot-by mode, I really worry about those people moving forward.

Samuel Van Wyk: Yeah, I mean, to bring this back to improv. In improv, we’re making things up, we’re making up a new world, we need to think outside the box to come up with the rules of this world. And the rules of our world are changing so drastically. Even within acting, what worked 10 years ago, boy, that doesn’t work now. The rules are constantly changing, and you need to be able to be, you know, you need to learn how to pivot, how to be flexible, how to learn how to elevate your game, how to change your goals to stay relevant.

Walt Frasier: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was thinking this morning about the acting thing, realizing, because I was talking about, like, what worked 20 years ago doesn’t work anymore. I think at the core, what we do is develop our craft and then figure out how to get paid to do it. You know, I don’t think that’s changed. And I know people hate the idea of content creation, but for the history of time, there’s always been, “we’re gonna create something and then we’re going to figure out how to pay our bills with it.” And if you’re only figuring out how to pay the bills, usually the art suffers, and vice versa. If you’re only focused on the art, that balance has always been where you find working artists in that Venn diagram intersection of art and business.

But, exactly right, how you get the work has changed, how you get noticed has changed. You know, everybody’s like, “oh, the TikTok people are getting the jobs,” all this stuff. Yeah, but that’s how you get noticed now. And I… I don’t know if I told you this, you might have seen some of my posts: my organic search on my main website has gone down 90% in the last 2 weeks. There’s been all this cry about SEO being dead, all this stuff. Whatever was out there was still working for me. And all of a sudden, on the New York Improv Theater website, NewYorkImproTheater.com, we went from having 3,000 to 5,000 views a week to under 500 views a week.

And to me, that is terrifying. Thankfully, we have repeat business, like 70-80% of what we do is people that have worked with us in the past, and we have great relationships, human relationships that we’ve made over 20-some years. But finding new leads and all kinds of things… and I know also people that I work with, and you know them, a lot of the third-party bookers that book us on some murder mysteries and improv shows and things, they’re calling less all of a sudden, because they’re not getting the leads either. And a lot of them are, like, national bookers that don’t worry about long-term relationships, they’re, like, “just… we’re gonna Google the heck out of this, right?”

And all of a sudden, I did, out of curiosity, I did a search for one of my articles on that website, one of my top articles, “Ethos, Pathos, and Logos: Comedy Writing.” 500 hits a week, down to 50 hits a week. And now, when you look for even, like, specifically that topic, my website, New York Theater, Ethos, blah blah blah, almost the entire article shows up in the AI summary. So you could say… and so it’s more like, they’re nice enough to say, “here’s the source of this information, if you want to click through.” But if you got what you need from it, you don’t have to go to the website. So, maybe that referenced the person, like, “oh, I need to know the person who wrote this article, that was good stuff.” Maybe they click through and buy a ticket, you know? But all the content marketing now… it’s… if it’s not this, one of the reasons we’re doing the podcast now, all of a sudden, it’s the only way to reach people now, is YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, or video content.

Samuel Van Wyk: Yeah. What’s frustrating is, like, I mean… people are like, “oh, you gotta make content,” great. But if you make content, like, it’s so funny, my friend works in digital advertising, and people are like, “well, we just need a viral tweet, we need a viral video.” It’s like, well, you can’t make a viral video. You can make a video and hope it goes viral. And the amount of actors I know who, like, I know I did it, it was a challenge, like, “great, I’m gonna put out 2 videos a week,” and like, they were fine and good and, you know, it was a nice little stretch of a muscle for me but it was like, “this is… I’m not getting enough back from this to keep doing it.” That being said, someone put up a video, them walking to the subway talking to their phone, for some reason blew up, and like, now they’ve got all these followers, like, that’s great, but that feels like putting too much energy into something that might work out. I’d rather focus on things that actually fulfill me and I think are going to make me better.

Walt Frasier: Right, right, right. Oh, the only counter to that is when it’s content marketing for something where you’re advertising something offline. 200 views can be enough, because you just need that one right view, right?

Samuel Van Wyk: Yeah, but you’re only gonna get that if you have however many followers. To be an influencer, to get hired to make something, requires a lot of following.

Walt Frasier: No, no, I’m sorry, that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about you and I, we do improv shows, we do murder mysteries, we do corporate workshops, we do this, we do that. And having 200 views on a video is enough if one of those videos is like, “oh, I want to hire those people.” You know what I mean? To make money from the video as an influencer, as a content creator, the chances of making money from the platforms is slim to none. That’s one in a million, maybe one in a thousand. You’re more likely gonna get money producing for TikTok than writing a pilot and hoping HBO picks it up, right? There’s actually better numbers there.

But, you don’t need a million views to use it to book work in the real world. And that’s… that’s the difference. If you’re chasing the views, you’re chasing that, that’s where it’s frustrating, it doesn’t seem worth it. But creating just something that is a presence and, and sadly, even for, like, casting directors booking TV shows and commercials and stuff like that, having a wall of content, they’re like, “oh, yeah, that’s what I’m looking for in my thing.”

And, you know, in the self-tape world, I’m not even doing self-tapes now, I haven’t even told my manager officially, but I’m like… not even on purpose, I blew off the last 3 because I was busy. I meant to do them and, you know, I feel bad, but at the same time how many hundreds of self-tapes have I done and not booked something? And for me, it’s more like, and you and I have talked about this, it’s: if I put that same 5-6 hours into marketing, I will book a workshop, I will book a show, I will book a murder mystery, I’ll book something that will be, you know, so there’s more of a guarantee. I know I will get work putting that 5 hours into this, versus putting 5 hours into a self-tape so some intern might see it.

Now… I’m also 53. If you’re 20, 30, 40, working consistently, don’t stop doing self-tapes. If they’re working for you, don’t stop doing self-tapes if you want to work in TV and film. I’m just at a point where I’m like, I don’t know if that’s where my passion is. So, for me, it’s just a reordering of my priorities. But all that being said, people are still finding me. But based on what I said over the last 2 weeks has changed, I wonder, maybe I should start doing self-tapes again, because is that 5, 6 hours gonna lead to work like it has been?

Samuel Van Wyk: Right. It’s also… if you’re just chasing work, that’s also a different thing. You know, like, I would much rather do a week-long guest star than do, you know, a 7am show for, you know… there are different levels. Happy to have all of them, don’t get me wrong. But, like, there are different levels of, like, it’s not just “a job, it’s a job, it’s a job.” But, like you say, you’re 53, you have different priorities.

Walt Frasier: 100%. And uh… yeah, for me, the company’s a thing. It’s the improv that’s allowed me to be day-job free for 20 years. That… now, it’s also the improv that allowed me to get in front of a manager that allowed me to get more SAG commercials and co-star roles and the things I’ve done. And those things help me promote what I do in the corporate world. So it all helps if I had something fresh to promote that, “hey, I’m gonna be on NBC this week.” No problem. And that’s why I’m always against it—I’m not against it, and I haven’t completely ruled it out. But my mission, my whole game right now is all about the murder mysteries, the K-12 outreach, and the workshops and the shows.

And that’s what’s paying the bills right now. And it’s like, yeah, as an artist, like, I’ve gotten to a point where, and this is me, I feel like I’ve done national tours, I’ve done regional, I’ve done dinner theater, I’ve done some TV, SAG co-stars, I’ve done some commercials, I’m like, in many ways, I feel like I don’t have a bucket list, if that makes sense at this point. Like, I’m good showing up and making people laugh for a few hundred bucks, or a couple thousand bucks, if I’m lucky, once in a blue moon. So that’s just where I am in my path, and I’m really enjoying producer, teacher, mentor mode at this point. Yeah, and that’s… and again, that’s part of being a couple years older, too. I feel like I’m young to be in the “give-back” stage, but I feel like I’m there now, if that makes sense.

But babbling a little bit, what else are you working on? What do you want to talk about? What do you want to promote before we wrap this up?

Samuel Van Wyk: Uh, you know, I work for, as you mentioned, murder mysteries. I work for several murder mystery companies. Uh, “What We Call Immersive” is one of them. We’re actually going to be reviewed in the New York Times coming up in a couple weeks, which is wild. Uh, we’re on Zoom today. I’ve been doing “Live In Theater,” which does excellent immersive theaters on Zoom. So, yeah, you know, just trying to keep busy, still chasing those TV and film opportunities when they come. Otherwise, having a great time doing murder mysteries and improv.

Walt Frasier: That one film you did, uh… was that Sentia? No, what was it called?

Samuel Van Wyk: Acerbity.

Walt Frasier: Acerbity, yeah, say it again one time.

Samuel Van Wyk: Yeah. Acerbity.

Walt Frasier: Acerbity. Is there anywhere people could see that, or is it just doing festival tours still?

Samuel Van Wyk: Uh, it is done with its festival tour. It was in several festivals, won several awards. Uh, you know what? Great question. I think it’s on Vimeo? I should look at that. But it’s ACERBITY. Name of the film.

Walt Frasier: Acerbity? Uh, awesome. Ladies and gentlemen, this has been an episode of Having Fun with Walt Frasier. Everybody say goodbye to Samuel Van Wyk. Come check us out, we’re at the Times Square improv shows at the Broadway Comedy Club, we’re touring events, college shows, K-12 outreach, corporate events. Both of us do a lot of corporate team building, too, so if you’re looking for some fun and bringing some improv comedy to the office or your school, give us a heads up. Awesome. Any final words?

Samuel Van Wyk: No, thanks for having me.

Walt Frasier: Awesome, we’ll see you guys next time. Woo! I always want to say Merry Christmas, as if I’m still Santa. I’m not going to say that.

Samuel Van Wyk: You’re not Santa, dude.

Walt Frasier: Stop.